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Thread: pocket 7 shove ok?

  1. #1
    Harald Zone's Avatar
    Harald Zone is offline Senior Member
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    Default pocket 7 shove ok?

    This was a big live tournament with 750 players, $130 buy-in, and antes starting at the 6th level. Top 100 finishers will cash.
    250 play in 3 separate flights on successive nights for 12 levels with the survivors meeting on day 4.
    I got 15,500 chips.
    The blinds are 600/1200 and the ante is 100.
    It is near the end of the 7th level.
    I am starting to think it is time to build my stack up before I slide into oblivion.
    The pots are alternatingly stolen and fought over.
    It is folded to me in the cutoff. I shove with pocket sevens.
    Only the small blind calls. I cover him by 200 chips.
    Was my shove the right play?

  2. #2
    J_Verschueren's Avatar
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    Most likely: yes.

    However in the interest of clarity/curiosity, I would like to know a couple more things.

    - was this on one of the satellite nights or in the final ?
    - how many players remaining ?
    - what was the next blindlevel ?

  3. #3
    Harald Zone's Avatar
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    It was a satellite night. If I survived the satellite night, I go on to the day 4 game with my accumulated chips.
    149 players of the 250 in my satellite remained.
    The next blind level was 800/1600 with a 200 chip ante.
    I estimated I needed 200,000 chips at the end of level 12 to be competitive on day 4.

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    RyckyRych's Avatar
    RyckyRych is offline Retired Micro Grinder
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    I assume this is not a satty, just a MTT with 3 start days.

    Easy shove. 13BBs in the CO, with antes in play? Very easy shove.
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    Folded to me in the cutoff? I'm shoving far, far wider than pocket 7s. I'm ecstatic to see 7s. You'd be shocked how wide I'm shoving here with a chance to pad my stack by nearly 20%.
    What else are you going to with those 7s? Fold? A standard raise here is 1/5th your stack. Are you going to raise/fold to the blinds?
    Ship it.
    Next.

  6. #6
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    Shock me. How wide are you here now?
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    Quote Originally Posted by RyckyRych View Post
    Shock me. How wide are you here now?
    Well, I can't shock you, but, any pair, any broadway, any ace, any king, any suited queen (and a few unsuited ones), any suited jack, any suited connector down to, say, 56, any suited one gapper down to maybe 57, any suited 2 gapper down to like T7, maybe even 96.

    I was saying I thought Harald might be shocked.

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    Harald Zone's Avatar
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    I am shocked by suited 57, suited 68, suited t7, suited 96, and the implied Q7 unsuited. I push any pair 77 and higher pre-flop and actually pushed with pocket 55 after the flop against 5 players when all checked and it worked. Now in regard to those pocket sevens in the title of this thread; they lost to pocket kings. But I don't regret it although it bums me.

  9. #9
    J_Verschueren's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Harald Zone View Post
    I am shocked by suited 57, suited 68, suited t7, suited 96, and the implied Q7 unsuited. I push any pair 77 and higher pre-flop and actually pushed with pocket 55 after the flop against 5 players when all checked and it worked. Now in regard to those pocket sevens in the title of this thread; they lost to pocket kings. But I don't regret it although it bums me.
    You had no choice. If you had slightly more chips or if the level would have lasted for a decent length of time still, a case could be made for minraise/folding or calling certain all-ins behind. With the imminent cost per round increase that would have geopardized your FE too much, though.

  10. #10
    RyckyRych's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Queso View Post
    Well, I can't shock you, but, any pair, any broadway, any ace, any king, any suited queen (and a few unsuited ones), any suited jack, any suited connector down to, say, 56, any suited one gapper down to maybe 57, any suited 2 gapper down to like T7, maybe even 96.

    I was saying I thought Harald might be shocked.
    Considering how tight a lot of live players are this is probably fine. They aren't calling enough. The any king and suited queens and jacks are a little dangerous (especially JXs) but I like the rest. In fact, if you are will to go with J2s then you might as well cut them out and include 54s, 64s, and 85s in there place. Without a kicker, you rather be connected, thus the exclusion of the lower-end QXs and JXs in my book. Not by much, maybe X6s and better.

    Of course, I'm sure these live players are too tight. They just won't call enough. You could easily push any two in the SB and be at least that wide (meaning Q's stated range) from the button. As Jen would tell me, people usually do not call wide enough to a late position shove, but actually tend to call a little wider than the math would suggest to the EP shoves. They want to play "stronger hands" like AJ and 88 vs. the EP shoves when they shouldn't, but won't "race" BvB with 44 when they should. They just play the hand, not the situation.

    Of course, we have the advantage of knowing a few more levels of thinking than they do. The best thing we can do is try to spot the guys that think like us as fast as possible so we don't get caught with our hands in the cookie jar by the smart ones. As we Pokerologists realize, its a game of ranges and leverage. We try to toe the line between genius and insanity when using them.

    Of course, I haven't played in a meaningful game of poker in 18 months. A new cycle could be in place by now. People might be calling more often because of all the LAG play that as been discovered. It might be time to start leaning a little more toward a more "call light, push tight" style. Of course, the last live game I played I had a guy BvB 3x and fold to my shove and show me AQ.

    Still, I like Q's thought process. We can pick apart the exact range all we want but his point is well made. As you can see, 77 is an easy shove.
    Last edited by RyckyRych; Oct 12th, 2012 at 02:18 AM.
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