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Thread: Another homegame hand.

  1. #1
    J_Verschueren's Avatar
    J_Verschueren is offline They call me "J"
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    Default Another homegame hand.

    Right, same game as always but a different night and it's properly going now (9-handed). There have been about 2 orbits and some small pots, so all stacks are still above 40,- Euros or so.

    Villain is BTN, new to the game and real money poker. He's practised the rules and the mechanics of NL Hold'Em on Zynga poker (Facebook). He's also watched some EPT episodes on YouTube (I later learned). He's acting nervous, but, obviously, that's more the result of the situation he's in, rather than indicative of his hand strenght. BTN is colleagues with UTG+1, a regular player in the game and a physical tells waterfall. This ends up not playing a role in the hand, but it could have. I shall explain.

    Folds to me in MP2 and I decide to open 3x with: . Reasoning: I get the initiative in case one of the blinds calls (BB in particular likes to see flops) and I'm building a pot in case I flop a set. I also expect to have an easy decision on most flops which miss me.

    CO calls, BTN calls and BB calls

    Flop (4 players); pot: 3,10-



    About the best "average" flop I could hope for. Someone could definately have a 9, but most random overcard hands have missed, so I thought a c-bet wasn't a hopeless endeavour (as mentioned before: a lot of the regulars are "fit or fold").

    Hero bets 2,00-, CO instafolds, BTN calls, BB stalls a little and folds. Villain doesn't appear to give up much in the way he plays (didn't check his cards, looked at the flop then at me, no real timing tells).

    Turn (2 players); pot: 7,10-



    Ok, so that doesn't change anything apart from adding a possible flushdraw. Does the call mean he's got a piece of this board, if so, how big of a piece is it? -can I push him off something like Q9?

    Hero bets 4,00-

    Villain momentarily sits up, then resumes his normal posture, but the pokerface ends up cracking. Villain brings his hand to his face and runs his finger along his jaw (self-appeasing gesture). He visibly needs to steel himself to make the call, but does make it. At that point I could have pegged him on the 9 and given up, but I decided that was too pessimistic and a noob like him could still have hands I beat and/or fold to a river bet. I sort of decided then and there I was going to fire another shell if the river wasn't paint (possible mistake).

    Meanwhile, UTG+1 is following events with visible and increasing alarm (as I usually show up with strong hands when I keep firing), but villain seems oblivious to him.

    Me (casually): "Non-believer, huh? -ok" --> no reaction.

    River (2 players); pot: 15,10-



    Meh... a 6 gets there, but then again, how many 6's call two streets? If I bet, it's not going to be for value, so I'd be turning my hand into bluff, negating my showdown value. It suddenly occurred to me I hadn't even been able to show down a hand which at some point had been a semi-bluff for some time, so bluffing became more appealing from an overall balance point of view and could I allow a noob to set the price?

    Hero bets 6,00-.

    Villain physically recoiled from the bet, so I thought my chances of getting a fold were good. UTG+1, meanwhile, was actually shaking "no" with his head, so I shot him a dirty look and he froze. Villain again didn't notice, for he had his head buried in his hands. He stayed like that for a good 10 seconds, drew a deep breath and said: "Call".

    I show my 7's and 6's, villain lets out a sigh of relief and reaches for the pot.

    Me: "Hold it, you can't do that unless you show me a better hand."

    Him: "Oh, right, sorry". He picks up his cards and shows .

    Me: "Both cards". Villain shows

    SB (villain from the hand I posted in december): "Wow, what a call!!" (pats villain on the shoulder).

    UTG+1: "Wow, just wow... 3 streets, that's cold Jan. I thought you'd have the best hand for sure"

    Me: "So did I"

    MP1: "Welcome to the table, Sir. Jeeez, Jan... (laughs)

    Meanwhile, I'm acting as if nothing out of the ordinary has happened, but inside I'm 2nd guessing not slowing down, obviously.

    Villain, as predicted, didn't play well and ended up losing about 1,5 buy-ins, some of it to me. Overall I still came out in the black, so one could say "no harm, no foul", but, as we like to say, outcome is irrelevant, making ever better decisions is.

    So, thoughts? -overplayed?
    Last edited by J_Verschueren; Jun 5th, 2015 at 03:34 PM.

  2. #2
    RyckyRych's Avatar
    RyckyRych is offline Retired Micro Grinder
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    Default

    Raising pre-flop is OK, this might be a time I just call since we are in somewhat early position. In a cash game with calling stations I'm thinking call.

    As played on the flop, I think I check since we have three callers preflop. However, given you know these guys, etc. I can't say betting is bad. However, once that button guy calls, I'm done without finding a 7. I could have stopped reading the post. If he calls there he has top pair at worst.

    However, you did learn something about his play, which in cash games I'd believe is worth a little something. Next time, when you have TT or something, you can value bet him to death.
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  3. #3
    BarraBod is offline Junior Member
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    Default My 2 cents

    I would have checked down hoping for a cheap showdown, called 1 bet on the way and gave up against further aggression. Your hand against 3 other people doesn't do very well.

    As played, once you bet flop and river I don't mind a 3rd barrel, the 6 doesn't exactly help any of your ranges and will get weak nines to fold (unless they are on the special side, which is the case this time).
    Too weird to live, too rare to die

  4. #4
    hagaic is offline Junior Member
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    Marginal SDV situation: I check the flop and usually call once until showdown.
    The flop misses your range (no high card) so they will float with overcards and with 3 loose opponents a 9x is certainly possible.
    Three-barreling against a fish is just spew (but if your'e going for it at least size the river to something more scary like 70%).

  5. #5
    J_Verschueren's Avatar
    J_Verschueren is offline They call me "J"
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    Quote Originally Posted by RyckyRych View Post
    Raising pre-flop is OK, this might be a time I just call since we are in somewhat early position. In a cash game with calling stations I'm thinking call.
    I very rarely open limp in general and, while you're right I don't really have to fear getting raised off my hand very often in this game, I still prefer to open as it does encourage some hand selection and, usually, getting checked to on the flop. In limped pots there tend to be donkbets from the blinds.

    Quote Originally Posted by RyckyRych View Post
    As played on the flop, I think I check since we have three callers preflop. However, given you know these guys, etc. I can't say betting is bad. However, once that button guy calls, I'm done without finding a 7. I could have stopped reading the post. If he calls there he has top pair at worst.
    Like I said before, a lot of fit or fold goes on in this game, so a couple of callers is of no immediate concern. I draw the line at 4, so, if the flop texture is reasonably favourable, I will, usually, bet into 3 people, but check if there's 4 or more.

    At the time I didn't think I could comfortably put him on the 9, given, for all I knew, he was straight out of playmoney poker. And not Pokerology playmoney poker either, facebook poker, where calldowns with ace and king high are not uncommon. Perhaps it's an error on my part to assume he might not play differently when playing for real money, even though the stakes are peanuts to him (diamond broker). Maybe I should have mentioned that.

    Quote Originally Posted by RyckyRych View Post
    However, you did learn something about his play, which in cash games I'd believe is worth a little something. Next time, when you have TT or something, you can value bet him to death.
    That was part of why I did it, usually, when I fire-fire-fire, I will have that overpair or TPGK or set. If I want to get payed on those, I have to, very occasionally (it's not as often as most people seem to think, in my experience), play a less than stellar hand in the same way.

    Quote Originally Posted by BarraBod View Post
    I would have checked down hoping for a cheap showdown, called 1 bet on the way and gave up against further aggression. Your hand against 3 other people doesn't do very well.

    As played, once you bet flop and river I don't mind a 3rd barrel, the 6 doesn't exactly help any of your ranges and will get weak nines to fold (unless they are on the special side, which is the case this time).
    Given he almost cracked on the turn, I thought I had a decent chance of a fold, yes, but I still think sort of pre-deciding I was going to do it and then bringing meta-game considerations into the mix was a mistake.

    Quote Originally Posted by hagaic View Post
    Marginal SDV situation: I check the flop and usually call once until showdown.
    True, if I'd had decent SDV, I wouldn't have bluffed at it.

    Quote Originally Posted by hagaic View Post
    The flop misses your range (no high card) so they will float with overcards and with 3 loose opponents a 9x is certainly possible.
    Three-barreling against a fish is just spew (but if your'e going for it at least size the river to something more scary like 70%).
    You have a point which escaped me at the time. This guy didn't know me, so I could have adjusted my betsizes with impunity. A larger bet on the river would have been unusual for me in this game and the regulars would have picked up on that, but I could have gone 10 or 11 and that might have done it, true.

    I know it's sub-optimal to bet rigidly, but live there's a lot more stuff I need to keep track off. I deal the game, for starters, then there's keeping track of the pot, my posture, keeping a poker face, handreading, trying to spot tells, etc... I don't want to have to keep track of switching up my betsizes, just so a certain bet doesn't start to mean a certain hand.

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