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Thread: Late MTT, AQ top pair on flop but.... Could I have played this any differently?

  1. #1
    D0beY is offline Junior Member
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    Default Late MTT, AQ top pair on flop but.... Could I have played this any differently?

    I'm just killing myself over the question if I could've played this hand better, or if getting knocked out of the tournament was just inevitable at this position.....

    Villain's VP/PFR were 25/21, so I figured he had a reasonably wide range when raising preflop.


    PokerStars Hand #131241776011: Tournament #1148756064, $3.00+$0.30 USD Hold'em No Limit - Level XV (300/600) - 2015/02/27 22:41:45 CET [2015/02/27 16:41:45 ET]
    Table '1148756064 26' 9-max Seat #6 is the button
    Seat 1: 354gravattdr (10046 in chips)
    Seat 2: georgio1959 (8585 in chips)
    Seat 3: oxfordtenzin (9572 in chips)
    Seat 4: UpUpAway66 (19456 in chips)
    Seat 5: Mocksun (18198 in chips)
    Seat 6: Satomax (24863 in chips)
    Seat 7: HERO (18612 in chips)
    Seat 8: Bowlink (16764 in chips)
    Seat 9: vinicool (12678 in chips)
    354gravattdr: posts the ante 70
    georgio1959: posts the ante 70
    oxfordtenzin: posts the ante 70
    UpUpAway66: posts the ante 70
    Mocksun: posts the ante 70
    Satomax: posts the ante 70
    HERO: posts the ante 70
    Bowlink: posts the ante 70
    vinicool: posts the ante 70
    HERO: posts small blind 300
    Bowlink: posts big blind 600
    *** HOLE CARDS ***
    Dealt to HERO [As Qc]
    vinicool: folds
    354gravattdr: folds
    georgio1959: folds
    oxfordtenzin: folds
    UpUpAway66: raises 600 to 1200
    Mocksun: folds
    Satomax: folds
    HERO: calls 900
    Bowlink: calls 600
    *** FLOP *** [6d 5s Qd]
    HERO: checks
    Bowlink: checks
    UpUpAway66: bets 1874
    HERO: raises 2626 to 4500
    Bowlink: folds
    UpUpAway66: calls 2626
    *** TURN *** [6d 5s Qd] [8c]
    HERO: bets 12842 and is all-in
    UpUpAway66: calls 12842
    *** RIVER *** [6d 5s Qd 8c] [6c]
    *** SHOW DOWN ***
    HERO: shows [As Qc] (two pair, Queens and Sixes)
    UpUpAway66: shows [Ks Kh] (two pair, Kings and Sixes)
    UpUpAway66 collected 38914 from pot
    HERO finished the tournament in 181st place
    *** SUMMARY ***
    Total pot 38914 | Rake 0
    Board [6d 5s Qd 8c 6c]
    Seat 1: 354gravattdr folded before Flop (didn't bet)
    Seat 2: georgio1959 folded before Flop (didn't bet)
    Seat 3: oxfordtenzin folded before Flop (didn't bet)
    Seat 4: UpUpAway66 showed [Ks Kh] and won (38914) with two pair, Kings and Sixes
    Seat 5: Mocksun folded before Flop (didn't bet)
    Seat 6: Satomax (button) folded before Flop (didn't bet)
    Seat 7: HERO (small blind) showed [As Qc] and lost with two pair, Queens and Sixes
    Seat 8: Bowlink (big blind) folded on the Flop
    Seat 9: vinicool folded before Flop (didn't bet)
    Last edited by D0beY; Feb 28th, 2015 at 10:32 AM.

  2. #2
    RyckyRych's Avatar
    RyckyRych is offline Retired Micro Grinder
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    A couple of questions.

    Did he always minraise preflop? Has anyone tried to steal from his late position raises? After you answer those I'll comment on the preflop stuff.

    The flat call after your check raise should have been quite worrisome though it would be tough to not continue like you did. However, I think I might have simply check-called with only TPTK and see how he played the turn. Being OOP here sucks. As played I think you go broke.
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  3. #3
    Queso's Avatar
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    I don't care what his vpip is, I'm always including AA and KK in his range. I would argue if you think he's that wide then you re-raise him pre. If you're just going to call and see what flops, then you're now spending a lot more post-flop on the check raise to try and get the same info. I'd go into check/call mode even if an Ace falls. And I'm probably folding if he jams.

    If you shove here (as you did), then obv. you're only getting called if you're crushed. This one's pilot error :)

  4. #4
    J_Verschueren's Avatar
    J_Verschueren is offline They call me "J"
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    I would never re-raise this pre-flop, regardless of how much of a fruitcake I consider villain to be (unless I've seen him fold to 3-bets a ton, which, given his stats, is not likely). The hand has some value, but it doesn't flop well and, even if, by chance, it does, we're still going to be OOP and thus it will be hard to extract value/take out a street and go for showdown value. So I'm onboard with the flat pre-flop, but I actually prefer a fold here, regardless of being "priced in".

    On the flop I would have liked to have seen a stab (with the intention to dub on a good turn or be done with the hand if called/raised), unless OP expected to get raised regardless of villain's hand strenght, in wich case a check/call, check/fold on the turn line would have been preferable.
    The check-raise was terrible because our bet accomplishes nothing. It's hard for worse hands to call and hands which do continue likely have us beat. Always think about what a bet is meant to do before making it.

    What I'm saying here does seem to sound straightforward/weak, but the truth of the matter is you need a fair bit of history with a player and solid evidence of actually being played back at to even consider "mixing up" your play and, even then I wouldn't do it from the SB at a full table with AQo (terrible position negates our hand strenght). I would prefer to do it with a hand which has the potential of flopping villain (almost) dead, instead of one which may be 2nd best even if it hits.
    Last edited by J_Verschueren; Mar 6th, 2015 at 12:55 PM.

  5. #5
    RyckyRych's Avatar
    RyckyRych is offline Retired Micro Grinder
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    You are going to fold AQ to a raise from an aggressive player sitting in the hijack seat? I never realized you were that nitty and it does sound weak. Even without any history I see no reason to not repop this guy. If he four-bets, yes, you fold however you're going to take down this hand preflop more than often enough to risk that. I will say that this hand goes reraise>fold>call in order of preference. If you don't have the balls to repop, fold is best.
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  6. #6
    J_Verschueren's Avatar
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    Fair challenge, as picking up the blinds and antes is important in a tournament. Let me gather my thoughts and get back to you on that.

  7. #7
    Queso's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by RyckyRych View Post
    You are going to fold AQ to a raise from an aggressive player sitting in the hijack seat? I never realized you were that nitty and it does sound weak. Even without any history I see no reason to not repop this guy. If he four-bets, yes, you fold however you're going to take down this hand preflop more than often enough to risk that. I will say that this hand goes reraise>fold>call in order of preference. If you don't have the balls to repop, fold is best.
    This.

    As I said, if you think he's that aggressive and wide, re-raise him pre. If he folds, great. If he jams, fold. If he calls, play post flop accordingly. I still think check/call, even with this flop, is best. Give him rope if you have him beat, and pot control if he has you crushed with AA, KK, or QQ.

  8. #8
    J_Verschueren's Avatar
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    Ok, so I thought about it and I still don't like it because of villain. Vpip is still in the competent LAG range, Pfr is relatively close, minraising in position... all this screams "regular" to me. If I 3-bet, he's going to 4-bet me correctly or force me to hit the flop if he just calls. Either way I'm just putting in too much with regard to my hand/position/stack. Give me the button or change the setting to 100BB deep in a cashgame, or give me a smaller stack and raising becomes the default play, but, in a tournament, particularly at this sort of stage/stackdepth I am more picky about which spots I take. Folding makes no difference to my tactical options, even if the blinds go up this orbit, I'm still not under any sort of immediate pressure to act and I'll have prime position for the next 3 hands: I can afford to let this one go. Probably the best hand I'll ever fold in that spot, but a fold nonetheless. Only advantage to raising I see is it makes it less likely I get squeezed by the BB. Or if it would be the first time in the tournament I 3-bet somebody, which is unlikely.

    And, yes, I do play fairly snug in the hope of being perceived as a random nit, as that gives me the opportunity to exploit even very good players, by kicking it up a notch when necessary.

  9. #9
    Patrick 'paddyjim''s Avatar
    Patrick 'paddyjim' is offline Senior Member
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    Personally I'd have 3-bet pre-flop and then played it from there.

    However, having just called, I'm definitely just flatting the flop. You're either miles ahead or miles behind, so the check raise and turn jam allows the villain to play perfectly, folding worse hands and calling with better.
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