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Thread: 50NL, 200BB+ deep live hand

  1. #1
    J_Verschueren's Avatar
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    Default 50NL, 200BB+ deep live hand

    Ok, so last Saturday I was invited to a homegame, full ring (9 players) and 6 out of 8 opponents bought in for 200BB, so I did as well, even though it was my first time playing in this game. Intel was most players were clueless, but seeing as this info was coming from someone whom I (now) consider to be pretty clueless as well (hadn't seen him play before), that's not saying much.
    That said, most players seemed to play a pretty weak game. There was only one guy I felt I needed to be really wary of (dead giveaway: he ordered a G&T when the game started, but didn't touch it).

    So fast forward an hour and a half, I've won a few small pots and stole a medium one in position from a guy who's body language screamed "I missed" (got to love people who go for the semi-bluff on the flop with a draw and then visibly deflate when the turn and river brick), so I've got about 140,- Euro in front of me. Villain's G&T has gone flat, but he's been quite active and has me covered. I'll lay out the hand as it was played up until the river and would like your thougths on how you would play out the hand from then on. Then I'll tell you what actually happened and ask for your thoughts on what you would do in that spot.

    I'm UTG with . I quickly scan the table and notice a number of players, who've already looked at their cards, are going to fold, so I briefly entertain the idea of limping in, but decide better of it and 3x it. It folds to villain on the button, who, after looking at his cards, counts out a raise, but then, without looking up at me, changes his mind and calls (he hasn't spoken a word since he bought in and sat down, he just lets his actions speak). SB folds, BB calls. Pot thus 4,75- Euros.

    Flop comes , BB checks, I bet 3,25- Euros because, even if I didn't have the set, or even an ace, I would rep it being the pre-flop raiser, so I feel I need to bet when I have it too. Villain looks at me, but I'm playing statue, so he gets nothing and calls, neither hurridly, nor squirmingly. I felt there was no information to be had from the timing of his call. He may have had a piece, he could have been floating, or drawing. BB folds, pot now 11,25- Euros.

    Turn is the , I bet 6,- Euro and villain calls again without giving much away about his hand, except he's not giving up on this pot easily. I mean, he'd been acive, but I hadn't seen him stick around without much, so now I'm starting to get worried. Pot 23,25- Euros.

    River is the ... crap, what do I do now?
    Last edited by J_Verschueren; Jan 6th, 2014 at 03:49 AM.

  2. #2
    bambini's Avatar
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    Default 50NL, 200BB+ deep live hand

    Wow. That's a tricky spot. Let's have a think about this:

    The fact that he counted out raising chips but opted to call suggests either a moderate but not astounding hand (AT? Middle suited connectors?) but changed his mind about trying to take down the pot preflop, or a monster like AK or KK (or suited connectors) that he's hoping to trap you with. Either way you're right to be cautious. Worst case scenario is of course KsQs.

    I don't think he's bluffing. If he missed the flop but was trying to float it, then I'd expect him to either fold or raise when you bet the turn. Also seems like odd behaviour for a draw, as you'd expect either a raise on the flop or turn, or a quick call. So my read from the flop is AJs+. Worst case scenario he's got Top pair, maybe 2-pair, which means he can't have a draw, or he's playing KsQs cleverly. Either way, on the flop you're still ahead, but it's ugly. The c-bet was fine there.

    On the turn he might have made a straight but I'm not entirely convinced. My read here is still AJ+. Again, your bet on the turn was fine, and you are right to be worried that he called.

    The river makes things far worse. Horrible board texture for a set of aces. You're either way ahead (because he flopped a pair or 2-pair and hasn't improved) or way behind. You can't really fold, so I'd be thinking about how to get the cheapest showdown. In that spot I'd check and hope he doesn't bet more than half pot. If you bet out then I think that he's almost certainly going to raise you and that puts you in a difficult position.

    How much do you have behind you on the river?
    Last edited by bambini; Jan 6th, 2014 at 10:40 AM.
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    Queso's Avatar
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    Flop bet was fine and I agree with your reasons. I would have bet more on the turn, say 2/3 pot. When he calls on the turn, it's not great but it could still be AK, 2 pair, a draw. I'm still betting this river as a blocking bet if not for value. He could call with worse, might just only call with a straight, might just only call with a medium flush for that matter.

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    J_Verschueren's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bambini View Post
    Wow. That's a tricky spot. Let's have a think about this: <snip>

    How much do you have behind you on the river?
    I started the hand with just under 140, so I should have 128-ish behind on the river.

    Thanks for the insights so far, guys, I'll post the river action tomorrow.
    Last edited by J_Verschueren; Jan 6th, 2014 at 07:41 PM. Reason: Brain fade.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Queso View Post
    I'm still betting this river as a blocking bet if not for value.


    As played I'd probably lead out with a 10 Euros bet on the river.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Tim View Post


    As played I'd probably lead out with a 10 Euros bet on the river.
    You both point out bet sizes, which is a good thing as I realise I pay too little attention to that. 10 Euros does indeed do the same job and makes for a smaller loss if villain shows up with a better hand. Over time all these little non-losses add up.

    But, anyway, I bet 12 Euros on the river on the reasoning I'd only been seen valuebetting a similar amount (half pot), so it wouldn't look like a blocking bet. Villain pauzes for like 4 seconds and raises to 25 Euros. Hero?

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    Default 50NL, 200BB+ deep live hand

    That's a polarising raise, but if he's not scared of that board and of you showing strength, then he's got something big. A reluctant fold I'm afraid.
    "Never play cards with a guy who has the same first name as a city" - Coach Finstock, Teen Wolf

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    60 pot, 13 to call?..... There's no way I'm folding. He may well have you beat, but I'm definitely calling.

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    Default 50NL, 200BB+ deep live hand

    Quote Originally Posted by Tim View Post
    60 pot, 13 to call?..... There's no way I'm folding. He may well have you beat, but I'm definitely calling.
    Good point - hadn't done my sums properly to work out that it was a small raise relative to the pot size. I still think you're probably beat, but Tim's right that you really have to call.
    "Never play cards with a guy who has the same first name as a city" - Coach Finstock, Teen Wolf

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    Default 50NL, 200BB+ deep live hand

    Oh yeah, I'm not folding either. If he has it, he has it. You're surrendering way too much value long term if you fold.

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