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Thread: Drawing To A Drawing Hand

  1. #1
    Queso's Avatar
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    Default Drawing To A Drawing Hand

    I had 2 terrible encounters with the hand of 3-5 last night in a $1/2 NL cash game, I just thought I'd put them up because one of them spotlights a general question I'd like some thoughts on.

    In the first one, a known aggressive in the cutoff makes a standard table raise to $12, I'm on the button with so I disguise the strength of my hand and just call. The flop comes , he checks it to me, and I fire $25. He reraises me to $50. I put him on KQ/KJ/KT at best and so I just call again. The turn is a blank and he fires $50. I call. I'm not folding to anything now, so when an 8 falls on the river and he fires $50 again, I call (I should have said "ship it!") and he shows down for two pair (when the turn had been a five). Okay. I can fault myself for several things here, I guess. I should have reraised him pre flop. I should have jammed it on the flop if I was so sure I had the best hand. Or I could have given him credit for possibly opening with 99 or even KK or AA. I just went with my read here, and my read was that he was weak. Oh well. Whatever.

    Second hand, at another table, I raise to $12 UTG with . UTG +1, with an equal stack, calls, and the cutoff shoves for $47. It folds back to me, and I consider shoving to isolate, but I figure if UTG+1 sees the odds he's getting, he might call as well, and I only have to manage him on the flop. No reads on this player, as I was new to the table. So I call, +1 calls as well, and we see the flop. It's . Perfect. I fire $75, about half pot. He snap calls. I look up at him in surprise. There aren't any draws on the board. Is he slowplaying AA? Did he flop a set? I mean, he called $47 bucks pre. I don't like his call at all.

    The turn is the . I check, he checks. River is a six. We both check, he shows down for the runner runner flush.

    So this dude called my $12 preflop raise, UTG+1, with , calls the $47 shove and call ahead of him, calls my $75 flop bet (because he said he had a straight draw), literally drawing without odds TO a drawing hand, and then rivers his runner runner flush.

    I'm beside myself. He goes, "You should have gone all in on the turn. I would have folded." Ya think???

    But here's the question. His $75 flop call is what slowed me down. What the hell else is he calling with? There's no draw. He must have had a set or some crappy two pair or whatever. How can I bet the turn when I'm sure I'm already beat? Wasn't I right to slow down? Or should I have just decided that my hand was strong enough to go to war with in that situation, period, and been willing to get the rest of my chips in on the turn? What the hell are you supposed to do, when they play so bad that they are drawing to a drawing hand?

  2. #2
    RyckyRych's Avatar
    RyckyRych is offline Retired Micro Grinder
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    First hand I can't blame the guy at all for doing what he did (considering his preflop action and hand). If you know him, I assume he knows you. If he had missed on the turn he might have slowed down, since you called his min-raise, which might have told him you had the K. Once he hit two pair he figured he was likely best.

    Second hand... dude had money to burn. End of story. You should have just isolated him preflop, though that is the SNG/MTT way I play... this is cash. Seems like $75 is about half the pot, right? I don't see an issue. Why he says he'd fold to a shove on the turn IDK... how much did you guys have left? $150? $300? $500?
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  3. #3
    Queso's Avatar
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    Default Drawing To A Drawing Hand

    Lol. I only blame the first guy for raising with 35 off. Well, and for re-raising my flop bet. I mean, seriously. These are people who have no conception of what you might be holding, and just assume you're trying to trick them the same way they're trying to trick you.

    In the second hand, we each had about $300 behind. I would hope he could find a fold to a turn shove, even though he already had $125 in. If I had shoved, and if he had called me, that would have been much worse.

  4. #4
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    The first hand is a real noodle scratcher, although I wonder what your table image was at that point? Had you recently been involved in a few pots and the villain just figured you were trying to push people around? It just seems that the way he played the flop is exactly how I'd play the hand if I was against the table bully. Although quite why he got involved with 53o is beyond me.

    Second hand is baffling, but I think I would have slowed down too with a snap call on the flop. Snap calls can often indicate weakness, but since you're new to the table it's hard to know if that's a tell for this guy. Again, getting involved with 53 preflop is just odd.
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  5. #5
    RyckyRych's Avatar
    RyckyRych is offline Retired Micro Grinder
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    The first hand... I think the guy was raising only because it folded to him. Q said he was an aggressive player so we can assume he'll do this often. Is that true, Q?
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  6. #6
    Queso's Avatar
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    Default Drawing To A Drawing Hand

    Oh yeah. Even so, that's really putting your eyeballs on the table when all you've got is bottom pair on the flop.

  7. #7
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    Tim
    Tim is offline quintessential chopbuster
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    I quite like 5-3, but I wouldn't play it like they did. Unlucky Q.

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