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Thread: Just saying how great you all are!

  1. #1
    Faustus Fotherby is offline Senior Member
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    Default Just saying how great you all are!

    Another long thread from me, I always end up writing essays!

    I know I've been absent from this forum for ages but coming back here has been so refreshing, an incident this evening made me realise how great the people on here are in so many ways.

    For instance, my 'little' thread about my poker journey was full of pretty pathetic reasons for not playing poker and excuses for playing badly etc. etc. but no one jumps in to criticise or roll their eyes about another 'noob' in the midst - you're always just really supportive and even when some people post really alarming examples of their play then people are fair and constructively critical. I know there's always that element of not educating the fish in poker but I know the people on here are just interested in improving everyone's game on here by pooling our collective experiences (so long as we don't play with each other too regularly! )

    By comparison, (with a bit of background first), I'm a competitive board gaming enthusiast and I really enjoy board and card games with a high skill level and learning curve (hence my interest in poker). One such card game that's been taking the board gaming world by storm is called 'Android: Netrunner' and I've been getting into it a lot lately*. I follow strategy conversations and other discussions about the game over on another forum and I've noticed a trend of elitism and dismissiveness from regular members of that forum. Requests for help on areas of the rules are often met with sharp comments to re-read the rulebook without any indication of where to look and people that submit their strategies for criticism are sometimes completely ignored. Admittedly, in some of these strategy situations then the asker doesn't give enough context to have a framework for analysis, (and we all know the importance of details when analysing poker scenarios), but the regulars that know the questions that they could ask to get that information just can't be bothered and instead leave a curt message or don't post at all.

    This evening in particular then there was a question from someone asking for a comparison to a different game, (one that many of the regulars of that forum resent drawing comparisons to). The first regular immediately snapped in with a curt line about there being zero comparison to this other game. I jumped straight in and pointed out that he had made an unnecessary knee-jerk reaction and proceeded to provide a series of comparisons for the original poster.

    Some of the regulars' attitudes are just horrible and I've seen a few new people on that forum really get their head bitten off, sometimes completely unreasonably. Board and card gaming, unlike poker, isn't quite as widespread a hobby. Or rather, it is, but there are so many board and card games that everyone has their favourites so chasing away new players is always a silly idea.

    On here then you guys are always happy to answer even the most mundane question, even if you've answered it a hundred times before on here. Anyway, long story short, you guys are great by comparison, so now that I've got the soppy out the way, continue being great!





    * Android: Netrunner is a 2-player, deck construction style card game with a cyberpunk setting where one player plays as a 'Runner' (hacker) that is attempting to steal the agendas of the opposing player, who represents a, supposedly evil, Megacorporation. The key element of the game is that the Corporation player plays a mostly defensive role and has a very limited capacity to attack the Runner player - the Corporation plays most of its cards and defences facedown and the Runner has to carefully prepare, or use surprises, to bypass the defences of the Corporation and find the agenda cards that it is hiding. The Corporation player's goal is to create a game state where they can place an agenda card facedown and then spend their own money and actions to advance the agenda to completion. Because of the Corporation's limited offensive capacity then creating this game state might involve playing defences it knows the Runner cannot break or by placing traps that cripple the Runner player so that they don't have the time or resources to access the agenda the Corporation will then attempt to score. The Corporation can even just straight-up bluff - placing agendas facedown and convincing the Runner that those cards are traps - just like in poker, successful bluffs are usually contingent on creating a scenario where uncovering the bluff is too expensive for the Runner to risk doing, though sometimes you can place an agenda in a position that is so obviously an agenda then they assume it must be a trap - and thus the levels of thinking come in. It's a really great game and if you want an overview of play then this introductory video gives a good overview and is the first in a series of fancy, over-produced, tutorial videos made by the game publisher.
    Last edited by Faustus Fotherby; Mar 13th, 2013 at 03:39 AM.

  2. #2
    RyckyRych's Avatar
    RyckyRych is offline Retired Micro Grinder
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    I use to play Yu-Gi-Oh! with my son when that was quite popular. My comparison ends there.

    I spent a lot of money on those #&@(!^$ cards though...
    I do a new thing now. Hidden Content

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    bambini is offline Senior Member
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    Default Just saying how great you all are!

    Ta very much! It's really the members that make a great forum. I'm a cigar smoker and a member of a couple of cigar forums. Long story short, a couple of years ago the mods on one forum got a bit heavy handed and banned some regulars. The regulars promptly set up their own, invite-only forum and invited all the good people over there. All the decent people left, so all that remained were a group of angry and rude mods who seemed compelled to flame any n00bs for asking simple questions.

    Guess which forum is thriving and which forum is on its knees?
    "Never play cards with a guy who has the same first name as a city" - Coach Finstock, Teen Wolf

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    RyckyRych's Avatar
    RyckyRych is offline Retired Micro Grinder
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    I thought you'd say "up in smoke". I'm disappointed. Where is TIME?
    I do a new thing now. Hidden Content

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    bambini is offline Senior Member
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    Default Just saying how great you all are!

    Quote Originally Posted by RyckyRych View Post
    I thought you'd say "up in smoke".
    Dammit. That's brilliant.
    "Never play cards with a guy who has the same first name as a city" - Coach Finstock, Teen Wolf

  6. #6
    Faustus Fotherby is offline Senior Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by RyckyRych View Post
    I use to play Yu-Gi-Oh! with my son when that was quite popular. My comparison ends there.

    I spent a lot of money on those #&@(!^$ cards though...
    Android: Netrunner's a bit better than classic random distribution model style card games in two ways.

    Firstly, it's run on a modern card distribution model called the 'Living Card' model. Instead of buying booster packs incessantly and just crossing your fingers for a good card (or another copy of a good card you like), the company instead releases a single booster pack once a month with the exact same cards in it amongst all booster packs of the same name. For example, the first booster was entitled 'What Lies Ahead' and contained 20 unique cards and 3 copies of each of these (3 being the maximum number of a single card you can include in a deck so you don't have to buy 'What Lies Ahead' more than once). Any copy of 'What Lies Ahead' has the exact same 60 cards in it. This also means there's no secondary market, you don't have to run around on-line buying individual copies of cards that might be in high demand (and thus really expensive) because every booster pack has the same thing in it.

    The drawback of the Living Card model is that, because they chuck out a booster pack every month, priced at around $15 each, then you end up spending quite a bit of money keeping up with the releases. However, if you were serious about collecting a random card distribution model style game then you'd almost certainly end up spending more money than keeping up with the Living Card format releases. The second drawback to Living Card formats pricing is that new players that want to be competitive will typically have to buy every booster printed to date, which 2 years since initial release could be an expensive initial outlay. Random card distribution games tend to phase out older cards so that the price of entry remains constant so this isn't quite as big a problem for them. Fortunately Netrunner's still only 4 booster packs and the initial core set into it's release. Another 2 boosters have been announced and then they're releasing a Deluxe Box, which is like a super booster with loads of cards in - after that it's expected they'll go back to release small ones every month and do another deluxe one a while later.

    Secondly, I heard Yu-Gi-Oh was hideously unbalanced and was mostly just designed to complement the TV series as a merchandise extra. By comparison, I understand that Android: Netrunner is rigorously play-tested and seen more as an adult's card game rather than a kid/teenager one. There's an on-line implementation of Android: Netrunner that records the win-loss rates of each side (Corp/Runner) and since the on-line implementation started tracking data then it's been almost exactly 50-50 with very slight deviations one way or another as different boosters have been released.

    Urgh, I've become such a fan-boy of this game

  7. #7
    RyckyRych's Avatar
    RyckyRych is offline Retired Micro Grinder
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    Yu-Gi-Oh also started a long time ago and I have no idea which came first, the show or the cards. We didn't care. It's unbalanced in the regard that often it depended on how much money you spent on your deck (or how lucky your packs were). Hey, it helped my son read and do the math and also some problem-solving so it was worth it. Plus, we had fun playing (though he rarely beat me).

    That was before poker so it was a long time ago. We since sold most/all of the cards.
    I do a new thing now. Hidden Content

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    Tim's Avatar
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    Tim is offline quintessential chopbuster
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    Quote Originally Posted by Faustus Fotherby View Post
    On here then you guys are always happy to answer even the most mundane question, even if you've answered it a hundred times before on here. Anyway, long story short, you guys are great by comparison, so now that I've got the soppy out the way, continue being great!
    Well said Faustus and I agree completely. This might not be the busiest poker forum but there has always been a good vibe amongst the members. Online communities can often be overrun by anti-social, abusive and obnoxious 'trolls'. This community is the opposite.

    Quote Originally Posted by RyckyRych View Post
    I thought you'd say "up in smoke". I'm disappointed. Where is TIME?
    Nice one!

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