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Thread: How much to Raise?

  1. #1
    Faustus Fotherby is offline Senior Member
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    Default How much to Raise?

    Pre-flop raising amounts have got me confused so I'm just checking what's the "done thing".

    So in the first few levels 4x (+1x for every limper) seems to be what I practice.

    In the later levels I find myself making 2 1/2x purely because it's like 200/400 and I might only have a mid stack.

    Are these alright? How should I alter the later level raising amount if I have a bigger stack?

    What do you like to do in cash games for pre-flop raising?

  2. #2
    Tim's Avatar
    Tim
    Tim is offline quintessential chopbuster
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    I prefer 3x +1 in the early stages, then 2.5x is usually my standard raise. Although I usually switch to 2.5x before the 200/400 level.

    You're making a mistake by going 2.5x just 'because you have a mid-stack'. Your stack size shouldn't enter into the equation (unless you're short and then you only have two options; push or fold) The purpose of raising 2.5x is that it often has the same result as making it 3x, so you get the same job done without risking as many chips.

    In cash games I generally stick with 3x. But like with most things in poker.... it depends. A $6 bet in a live 1/2 game doesn't usually get much respect.

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    I tend to use 2.5x as a standard these days. I`ll sometimes use 3x at the beginning of mtts but it depends on the size of the blinds.

    I also raise 2.5 in cash games.
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    Queso's Avatar
    Queso is offline Check To The Possible
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tim View Post
    A $6 bet in a live 1/2 game doesn't usually get much respect.
    Exactly.

    Phil Gordon says he now varies his raise by position: 3.5X early, 3X mid, and 2.5 late. This, he says, makes it a little easier to plow through a crowd, and encourages action late when he does pick up a hand.

    I don't know how much of a difference this could actually make, but hey, he's Phil Gordon, and I, well-- I'm not.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Queso View Post
    Exactly.

    Phil Gordon says he now varies his raise by position: 3.5X early, 3X mid, and 2.5 late. This, he says, makes it a little easier to plow through a crowd, and encourages action late when he does pick up a hand.

    I don't know how much of a difference this could actually make, but hey, he's Phil Gordon, and I, well-- I'm not.
    I really don`t like that system because you`re inflating pots that you`ll most often be OOP on the flop. Yes your range is much smaller but a big part of that range will be big aces that only hit 1/3 and hands like 99-JJ which will often be facing overcards. So you fire out a C-bet, get called and then if you miss on the turn you`re in a bad position.
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  6. #6
    RyckyRych's Avatar
    RyckyRych is offline Retired Micro Grinder
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    Quote Originally Posted by DangerMouse View Post
    I really don`t like that system because you`re inflating pots that you`ll most often be OOP on the flop. Yes your range is much smaller but a big part of that range will be big aces that only hit 1/3 and hands like 99-JJ which will often be facing overcards. So you fire out a C-bet, get called and then if you miss on the turn you`re in a bad position.
    This might work OK for him since he will not always c-bet a flop. He might be able to get away with more post-flop than we would due to his skill and experience in playing this way.

    I know I've always liked using the same raise amount. The only time I raise a little higher is out of the blinds, and then that would mean someone had limped or raised already anyway.

    I will vary my raise size to my stack when I'm in the 18-23BB area (without antes). I'll drop under 3x in order to try and give myself a little more room post-flop by creating a smaller pot. Of course I'll do this with AA and JTs, the hand never matters.

    Since I'm almost always playing turbos I don't have to worry about giving away too much info in the games I play, but if I'm in a slower structure I'll try to pay attention to when I might adjust this raise size and perhaps mix things up a little. If I showed a very strong hand, I'll continue to use it with weaker ones and perhaps go back to 3x with the premiums, or vice versa. Of course, it only matters if someone is paying attention and trying to make sense of my raise sizing.
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    Quote Originally Posted by RyckyRych View Post
    This might work OK for him since he will not always c-bet a flop. He might be able to get away with more post-flop than we would due to his skill and experience in playing this way.
    Yup I agree.

    Quote Originally Posted by RyckyRych View Post


    I will vary my raise size to my stack when I'm in the 18-23BB area (without antes). I'll drop under 3x in order to try and give myself a little more room post-flop by creating a smaller pot. Of course I'll do this with AA and JTs, the hand never matters.
    This is a great point

    I will also say that if I have a particularly stubborn player in the BB who continually calls a 2.5x bet I`ll move up to 3x or pot when I`m stealing from LP. As Rycky said this will apply no matter if I`m stealing or betting for value.
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