spare time cashy

[texas_muck'em]

had about a half an hour till bed, decided to play a little 25nl full ring, ended a 20minute session $35 up, good times

*********** # 5 **************
PokerStars Hand #84274811252: Hold'em No Limit ($0.10/$0.25 USD) - 2012/08/05 4:27:10 NZT [2012/08/04 12:27:10 ET]
Table 'Errai II' 9-max Seat #9 is the button
Seat 1: Ivo jugador ($10.45 in chips)
Seat 2: UrFqnWeTodIt ($25 in chips)
Seat 3: andano28 ($36.15 in chips)
Seat 5: liangxiaohu ($28.34 in chips)
Seat 6: palekings ($33.71 in chips)
Seat 7: waatpyfb ($40.29 in chips)
Seat 8: ziirpx3 ($16.12 in chips)
Seat 9: Dillon999999 ($19.95 in chips)
Ivo jugador: posts small blind $0.10
UrFqnWeTodIt: posts big blind $0.25
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to waatpyfb [Ad Ks]
tom170checko leaves the table
andano28: folds
liangxiaohu: folds
ribicusdevil joins the table at seat #4
palekings: folds
waatpyfb: raises $0.50 to $0.75
ziirpx3: calls $0.75
Dillon999999: calls $0.75
Ivo jugador: folds
UrFqnWeTodIt: folds
*** FLOP *** [8d Kc 5c]
waatpyfb: bets $1.75
ziirpx3: folds
Dillon999999: calls $1.75
*** TURN *** [8d Kc 5c] [4h]
waatpyfb: bets $4
Dillon999999: calls $4
*** RIVER *** [8d Kc 5c 4h] [7c]
waatpyfb: bets $13.45
Dillon999999: calls $13.45 and is all-in
*** SHOW DOWN ***
waatpyfb: shows [Ad Ks] (a pair of Kings)
Dillon999999: shows [Kd Qd] (a pair of Kings - lower kicker)
waatpyfb collected $39.16 from pot


*********** # 6 **************
PokerStars Hand #84274744874: Hold'em No Limit ($0.10/$0.25 USD) - 2012/08/05 4:25:29 NZT [2012/08/04 12:25:29 ET]
Table 'Errai II' 9-max Seat #8 is the button
Seat 1: Ivo jugador ($10.70 in chips)
Seat 2: UrFqnWeTodIt ($25 in chips)
Seat 3: andano28 ($36.15 in chips)
Seat 4: tom170checko ($10.95 in chips)
Seat 5: liangxiaohu ($28.34 in chips)
Seat 6: palekings ($33.71 in chips)
Seat 7: waatpyfb ($28.08 in chips)
Seat 8: ziirpx3 ($16.12 in chips)
Seat 9: Dillon999999 ($20.05 in chips)
Dillon999999: posts small blind $0.10
Ivo jugador: posts big blind $0.25
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to waatpyfb [Kh Ad]
UrFqnWeTodIt: raises $0.25 to $0.50
andano28: folds
tom170checko: calls $0.50
liangxiaohu: folds
palekings: folds
waatpyfb: raises $1.50 to $2
ziirpx3: folds
Dillon999999: folds
Ivo jugador: folds
UrFqnWeTodIt: calls $1.50
tom170checko: calls $1.50
*** FLOP *** [Ah Kc 2h]
UrFqnWeTodIt: checks
tom170checko: checks
waatpyfb: bets $2
UrFqnWeTodIt: folds
tom170checko: calls $2
*** TURN *** [Ah Kc 2h] [Th]
tom170checko: bets $1
waatpyfb: raises $6.95 to $7.95
tom170checko: calls $5.95 and is all-in
Uncalled bet ($1) returned to waatpyfb
*** RIVER *** [Ah Kc 2h Th] [Jc]
*** SHOW DOWN ***
tom170checko: shows [Td Jd] (two pair, Jacks and Tens)
waatpyfb: shows [Kh Ad] (two pair, Aces and Kings)
waatpyfb collected $23.16 from pot

*********** # 7 **************
PokerStars Hand #84274696562: Hold'em No Limit ($0.10/$0.25 USD) - 2012/08/05 4:24:15 NZT [2012/08/04 12:24:15 ET]
Table 'Errai II' 9-max Seat #7 is the button
Seat 1: Ivo jugador ($10.70 in chips)
Seat 2: UrFqnWeTodIt ($25 in chips)
Seat 3: andano28 ($36.15 in chips)
Seat 4: tom170checko ($10.95 in chips)
Seat 5: liangxiaohu ($28.34 in chips)
Seat 6: palekings ($33.71 in chips)
Seat 7: waatpyfb ($28.58 in chips)
Seat 8: ziirpx3 ($14.87 in chips)
Seat 9: Dillon999999 ($20.30 in chips)
ziirpx3: posts small blind $0.10
Dillon999999: posts big blind $0.25
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to waatpyfb [7h 8d]
Ivo jugador: folds
UrFqnWeTodIt: raises $0.25 to $0.50
andano28: folds
tom170checko: folds
liangxiaohu: folds
palekings: folds
waatpyfb: calls $0.50
ziirpx3: raises $1.25 to $1.75
Dillon999999: folds
UrFqnWeTodIt: folds
waatpyfb: folds
Uncalled bet ($1.25) returned to ziirpx3
ziirpx3 collected $1.75 from pot
ziirpx3: doesn't show hand

*********** # 8 **************
PokerStars Hand #84274677924: Hold'em No Limit ($0.10/$0.25 USD) - 2012/08/05 4:23:47 NZT [2012/08/04 12:23:47 ET]
Table 'Errai II' 9-max Seat #6 is the button
Seat 1: Ivo jugador ($10.35 in chips)
Seat 2: UrFqnWeTodIt ($25 in chips)
Seat 3: andano28 ($36.15 in chips)
Seat 4: tom170checko ($10.95 in chips)
Seat 5: liangxiaohu ($28.34 in chips)
Seat 6: palekings ($33.71 in chips)
Seat 7: waatpyfb ($28.68 in chips)
Seat 8: ziirpx3 ($15.12 in chips)
Seat 9: Dillon999999 ($20.30 in chips)
waatpyfb: posts small blind $0.10
ziirpx3: posts big blind $0.25
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to waatpyfb [4d 8s]
Dillon999999: folds
Ivo jugador: raises $0.50 to $0.75
UrFqnWeTodIt: folds
andano28: folds
tom170checko: folds
liangxiaohu: folds
palekings: folds
waatpyfb: folds
ziirpx3: folds
Uncalled bet ($0.50) returned to Ivo jugador
Ivo jugador collected $0.60 from pot
Ivo jugador: doesn't show hand

*********** # 9 **************
PokerStars Hand #84274639157: Hold'em No Limit ($0.10/$0.25 USD) - 2012/08/05 4:22:48 NZT [2012/08/04 12:22:48 ET]
Table 'Errai II' 9-max Seat #5 is the button
Seat 1: Ivo jugador ($10.35 in chips)
Seat 2: UrFqnWeTodIt ($25 in chips)
Seat 3: andano28 ($36.15 in chips)
Seat 4: tom170checko ($9.48 in chips)
Seat 5: liangxiaohu ($28.34 in chips)
Seat 6: palekings ($33.81 in chips)
Seat 7: waatpyfb ($28.93 in chips)
Seat 8: ziirpx3 ($15.12 in chips)
Seat 9: Dillon999999 ($21.55 in chips)
palekings: posts small blind $0.10
waatpyfb: posts big blind $0.25
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to waatpyfb [9c 7c]
ziirpx3: folds
Dillon999999: raises $0.25 to $0.50
Ivo jugador: folds
UrFqnWeTodIt: folds
andano28: folds
tom170checko: raises $0.75 to $1.25
liangxiaohu: folds
palekings: folds
waatpyfb: folds
Dillon999999: calls $0.75
*** FLOP *** [Qc 7d 9s]
Dillon999999: checks
tom170checko: bets $1.50
Dillon999999: folds
Uncalled bet ($1.50) returned to tom170checko
tom170checko collected $2.72 from pot
tom170checko: doesn't show hand

*********** # 10 **************
PokerStars Hand #84274588520: Hold'em No Limit ($0.10/$0.25 USD) - 2012/08/05 4:21:31 NZT [2012/08/04 12:21:31 ET]
Table 'Errai II' 9-max Seat #4 is the button
Seat 1: Ivo jugador ($10.35 in chips)
Seat 2: UrFqnWeTodIt ($25 in chips)
Seat 3: andano28 ($36.15 in chips)
Seat 4: tom170checko ($6.65 in chips)
Seat 5: liangxiaohu ($28.44 in chips)
Seat 6: palekings ($34.06 in chips)
Seat 7: waatpyfb ($29.68 in chips)
Seat 8: ziirpx3 ($15.12 in chips)
Seat 9: Dillon999999 ($21.55 in chips)
liangxiaohu: posts small blind $0.10
palekings: posts big blind $0.25
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to waatpyfb [Kd Qc]
waatpyfb: raises $0.50 to $0.75
ziirpx3: folds
Dillon999999: folds
Ivo jugador: folds
UrFqnWeTodIt: calls $0.75
andano28: folds
tom170checko: calls $0.75
liangxiaohu: folds
palekings: folds
*** FLOP *** [8h 2d 2h]
waatpyfb: checks
UrFqnWeTodIt: bets $1.20
tom170checko: raises $1.20 to $2.40
waatpyfb: folds
UrFqnWeTodIt: folds
Uncalled bet ($1.20) returned to tom170checko
tom170checko collected $4.78 from pot
tom170checko: doesn't show hand

*********** # 11 **************
PokerStars Hand #84274510046: Hold'em No Limit ($0.10/$0.25 USD) - 2012/08/05 4:19:33 NZT [2012/08/04 12:19:33 ET]
Table 'Errai II' 9-max Seat #3 is the button
Seat 1: Ivo jugador ($10.35 in chips)
Seat 2: UrFqnWeTodIt ($25 in chips)
Seat 3: andano28 ($39.70 in chips)
Seat 4: tom170checko ($6.75 in chips)
Seat 5: liangxiaohu ($28.69 in chips)
Seat 6: palekings ($34.06 in chips)
Seat 7: waatpyfb ($26.12 in chips)
Seat 8: ziirpx3 ($15.12 in chips)
Seat 9: Dillon999999 ($21.55 in chips)
tom170checko: posts small blind $0.10
liangxiaohu: posts big blind $0.25
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to waatpyfb [Td Ts]
palekings: folds
waatpyfb: raises $0.50 to $0.75
ziirpx3: folds
Dillon999999: folds
Ivo jugador: folds
UrFqnWeTodIt: folds
andano28: calls $0.75
tom170checko: folds
liangxiaohu: folds
*** FLOP *** [6s 8c 8d]
waatpyfb: bets $1.25
andano28: raises $1.55 to $2.80
waatpyfb: calls $1.55
*** TURN *** [6s 8c 8d] [3d]
waatpyfb: checks
andano28: checks
*** RIVER *** [6s 8c 8d 3d] [2s]
waatpyfb: checks
andano28: checks
*** SHOW DOWN ***
waatpyfb: shows [Td Ts] (two pair, Tens and Eights)
andano28: mucks hand
waatpyfb collected $7.11 from pot



tried doing copy and pasting the hand history into "pokerology hand history replayer" but it showed "error:web site not supported"

[RyckyRych]

Hands 5 and 6 I liked, can't really argue too much. Is there a place to say you could have slowed down a little with just TPTK in the first hand? Maybe. But at some of these tables TPTK = nuts vs. these guys. The second hand I liked the line since you had the K to the flush.

Hand #8 I disliked, just fold.

The last hand with TT I think you could have bet the river for value but I'm not sold on that. You do have showdown value and these guys do like to play JJ and QQ like you did TT. The MTTer in me might have wanted to jam the flop since I doubt an 8 would raise here. Since any ace thru jack is an evil card for us I wouldn't mind ending the hand there.


Then again, I don't play cash.

[texas_muck'em]

yeah I'm not gonna lie, I knew TPTK wasn't a big hand enough for three increasing streets of value, I probably should have bet smaller on the flop, checked the turn, and bet the river... however I think I was in the mood to try fool these guys out of their entire stacks
make bluff or nothing bets, typing in their exact stack size to taunt them, and one guy took the bait with the queen kicker.
I don't know what the guy with JT was thinking, possibly cracked under the bordom
my TT hand, the guy had 55, he put in that reraise, I couldn't see what eight he would be playing there, however he was on the button so he could be playing any two, also I just sat down a few hands ago so I was looking to sus out the competition a bit more, and he had nearly doubled up, so I wanted to pot control that hand and see his hand, I didn't get another encounter with him.
jamming that flop might be a good idea, I'm just thinking about getting a call when we're ahead, and that might do it, it looks like a scared move
my move of checking the turn was weak and the right sized bet might have folded me, I wish I could get his opinion of me on that hand, maybe he saw the six, he had fives, he knew he couldn't get fish to fold, and he knew the table was full of them, so he used his position to see showdown

[Tim]

#5 - you took him to value town, nice.
#6 - I would bet more on the flop.
#7 - not sure why you've included that hand.
#8 - same as above.
#9 - same as above.
#10 - fold pre-flop.

As for hand #11.....

My TT hand, the guy had 55, he put in that reraise, I couldn't see what eight he would be playing there, however he was on the button so he could be playing any two, also I just sat down a few hands ago so I was looking to sus out the competition a bit more, and he had nearly doubled up, so I wanted to pot control that hand and see his hand, I didn't get another encounter with him.

Jamming that flop might be a good idea, I'm just thinking about getting a call when we're ahead, and that might do it, it looks like a scared move
my move of checking the turn was weak and the right sized bet might have folded me, I wish I could get his opinion of me on that hand, maybe he saw the six, he had fives, he knew he couldn't get fish to fold, and he knew the table was full of them, so he used his position to see showdown

His move was simple, he was playing position and raised your c-bet on a ragged board. Once you call he's probably putting you the sort of hand that you had - and unless he spikes a set then he's check/folding all the way. Jamming the flop would have been terrible play. Based on the play of that hand and the fact you didn't see him play much else would suggest he was the opposite of the guy sat to his left, i.e. a thinking player.

[RyckyRych]

[QUOTE=Tim;42034 Jamming the flop would have been terrible play.[/QUOTE]

In cash I agree... in a MTT? Takes guts, but I like it more then. Though at these levels it's likely you'll get to see it all the way down if the guy doesn't really have it.

[texas_muck'em]

#5 - Jamming the flop would have been terrible play. Based on the play of that hand and the fact you didn't see him play much else would suggest he was the opposite of the guy sat to his left, i.e. a thinking player.

@thinking player, yeah, it wasn't the type of board to hit a typical raising hand, so his reraise targeted that, definately not a fish, to see that far through my cards.

I hate how I played the hand though, it was as if I turned my cards over (almost), if he clued-on to my call/check he could have made a turn bet (so that his river bluff can collect more pot), that would have taken some skill on his part to pick the right bet sizes and bet timings, so he may not have had it in him... I just hate that I gave him that chance

@jamming the flop would have been terrible play, I don't know... I think at 25nl, the players (like me) don't see 25$ as much of a life changer either way, but putting a few 25$ wins together can make the bank roll start to enter a league where the profits will start to change your life, so calling down big bets with a 50% chance of having the best hand is what I think the fish on this level like doing. in my approximation, its not tough types of money so they're not tough types of players.

for that reason alone, jam the flop might have been good... he flat called behind preflop, he reraised bigish on the flop...

nah, I still can't get past the fact that I just sat down, and I didn't know if he'd put on the cape, and I hadn't given him any reason to think I would shove something like AK AQ there, and he had nearly doubled up before I got there, so he might have been to good for that...

wouldn't rule out a jam though... it depends

[Tim]

@thinking player, yeah, it wasn't the type of board to hit a typical raising hand, so his reraise targeted that, definately not a fish, to see that far through my cards.

It was a fairly standard play. All I'm saying is that he's probably a thinking player, not Phil Ivey.

I hate how I played the hand though.........I just hate that I gave him that chance

Forget about it. He had the benefit of position, you didn't. It's easy to get outplayed when you have to act first.

@jamming the flop would have been terrible play, I don't know... I think at 25nl, the players (like me) don't see 25$ as much of a life changer either way, but putting a few 25$ wins together can make the bank roll start to enter a league where the profits will start to change your life, so calling down big bets with a 50% chance of having the best hand is what I think the fish on this level like doing. in my approximation, its not tough types of money so they're not tough types of players.

It doesn't matter if it's life changing amounts or not. If you are playing at stakes that are life changing then you're playing way too high anyway. Whether you're playing $2NL or $200NL - you need to have respect for the table stakes.

If you think that by jamming on that flop you're going to get called enough of the time by hands worse than yours, then go for it. I still conclude that it's a move with negative expectation.

[RyckyRych]

It doesn't matter if it's life changing amounts or not. If you are playing at stakes that are life changing then you're playing way too high anyway. Whether you're playing $2NL or $200NL - you need to have respect for the table stakes.

If you think that by jamming on that flop you're going to get called enough of the time by hands worse than yours, then go for it. I still conclude that it's a move with negative expectation.

Indeed, your bankroll should be money that is not consisted of life money. The bankroll is its own entity. If you can't afford to lose the money in your bankroll, well, its really not your bankroll. The idea is to generate money from your bankroll. Yes, you are going to want to increase your bankroll to play bigger stakes, yadyada, but if you are worried about it at all then you are playing too high.

As far as whether the move was +EV or not is just a matter of your opinion on a number of things. The main idea is to properly determine the correct move based on the information and experience you have. Tim determined that it would be -EV, I might think its not so much. The idea is not to have to worry about being "wrong". We might think the guy wins only 5% of the time, but just because he might hit that 1 in 20 chance doesn't make you wrong.

MDFR

[texas_muck'em]

Forget about it. He had the benefit of position, you didn't. It's easy to get outplayed when you have to act first.

If you think that by jamming on that flop you're going to get called enough of the time by hands worse than yours, then go for it. I still conclude that it's a move with negative expectation.

my first thought was to feel better about my leak after reading that, but then I thought "don't get lazy me, stick to the ambition"

for me to play in that spot one thousand times(same info, same action, same hand history) I can't see much expectation.. but with different info and hand history, there could be a change in expectation...
like this one time I triple barrel bluffed someone at a live game, a few hands later I shoved $21 into $1.50 of blinds and I got the same person to call with pocket eights.
mess round with the hand history and tip the results

I have seen this one guy consistently play weak hands when the table first opens and show his bluffs, and then get action on his overbets later.