It's (Almost) Official - I Cannot Beat The Micros

**Faustus Fotherby** · Jun 3rd, 2012, 04:46 PM

Morale's going down the pan for me on the poker front.

It's been a while since I played but I finally got some money in the bank and decided to set aside $140 equivalent and see how I did grinding the $.02/.04 micros on PKR (felt like changing it up from PokerStars).

I'm roughly 2,750 hands into the grind and I'm losing. Not monumentally but I'm down $15-ish when I should be up like $2.

I'm probably going to keep going to 5,000 at least, but it's depressing going. It's so frustrating because I've read and read then played and practiced and I'm just being slaughtered everytime. It's like for every one big pot I win then I'm down a similar amount in smaller bets on other tables.

I typically play 6 tables really tight starting hand selection then loosen up a bit as my rock image sets in. I prefer multi-tabling to single tabling because when I single table then I make similar decisions (good or bad) but I find I'm more likely to try and level my thinking, which just overcomplicates things and often leads me to making more bad decisions. The other benefit with multi-tabling is that if you're losing on one table then it's easier to maintain focus knowing that other tables are doing fine. Final benefit being that it'll take me till next year to get to a decent hand number on just the one table.

When my hand count's up more and I'm still down on the money then I'm gonna have to quit cos it's just wasting my time and money. I'll probably keep reading about poker and when I have more money to try re-rolling myself I'll probably give it another go but right now it just isn't working out

**J_Verschueren** · Jun 4th, 2012, 01:56 AM

Well, I don't think I could 6-table 4NL (or anything for that matter) and beat it either. First, beat the game and then, as you get a feel for the sort of hands people play and how they play them, add tables.

Do you know, e.g., how often certain players generally defend their big blind? Do you know what sort of hands they do so with? Do you know what it means when they donk small on the flop? Or when they donk potsize? When they minraise you back, does it mean they're trying to cheaply fold out your (semi-)bluffs or do they have a monster? Does a quick call mean a weak made hand, a strong made hand or a draw?

Short of using tracking software (which, in itself, requires considerable experience to use correctly), I don't think it's possible to learn a stake without having the time to observe/take notes, as when 6-tabling.

Also, especially for cash, 2K7 is a fairly small sample size. Anything can happen over that sort of period. I don't know how many hands of 2NL Zoom I've played on Stars (probably about 4k; I can't be arsed to keep detailed track of online cash poker as long as I don't lose too badly; I play it for fun), but I know at one point I was -3BI with regard to my starting amount and -7BI with regard to my highest bankroll since starting Zoom poker. Meanwhile I'm back "up" again, still single tabling (while possible to multitable, I don't think I could do so without breaking up the flow of the game for other players; which is not to say most multitabling players on there ever concern themselves with this thought, apparently

) and figuring out my "average best play against an unknown", while ammassing notes on people I meet regularly.

I mean, poker is about learning where your edge is and how to exploit it, not about setting up a certain situation and seeing if it works or not.

**Tim** · Jun 4th, 2012, 02:20 PM

Originally Posted by Faustus Fotherby

I typically play 6 tables really tight starting hand selection then loosen up a bit as my rock image sets in.

Hmmm, I'm not sure I like this. You're assuming that others will view you as a rock when the reality is they probably aren't paying any attention. Of course when you're playing live it's very important to take advantage of your table image, but not so much in an online $4NL game.

Originally Posted by Faustus Fotherby

When my hand count's up more and I'm still down on the money then I'm gonna have to quit cos it's just wasting my time and money. I'll probably keep reading about poker and when I have more money to try re-rolling myself I'll probably give it another go but right now it just isn't working out

Your sample size is too small. If you're 6-tabling then how many hours have you put in? 6, 7, 8 hours? Surely you're not playing $4NL to make money but to learn and improve as a poker player.

I suggest you continue playing and don't even check your win rate until you've played a lot more hands. Just concentrate on making the right decisions and forget about the results.

Good luck.

**J_Verschueren** · Jun 4th, 2012, 04:24 PM

Originally Posted by Tim

Hmmm, I'm not sure I like this. You're assuming that others will view you as a rock when the reality is they probably aren't paying any attention. Of course when you're playing live it's very important to take advantage of your table image, but not so much in an online $4NL game.

Tim is right, the majority of players at these tables don't pay attention or adjust to the way one plays.

I play pretty snug and I'm still regularly surprised by acts of kindness like people calling me down w/ A6o on an ace-high board. One would think they'd realise that if the tightest player at the table raises UTG, they might have a kicker problem come showdown, but apparently "OMG!!! -an ace!!" is the only thought going through their minds.

**Jalopy** · Jun 4th, 2012, 05:21 PM

To add to the other good points here, instead of quitting outright when you can't take it anymore, why not try another game? It may be that you would benefit from looking at poker from another angle or maybe you are more suited to looking at it from another angle.

I used to play NL holdem exclusively and after going through a period of losing a large chunk of my BR I decided to switch to limit holdem. After a short period of adjustment my win rate started increasing and I became a solid winning player in the micros. My game is now FL holdem and I rarely play NL anymore but when I do I know I play it much better than I used to because of the skills I learned and improved via my limit experience.

Long story short...don't give up if you are still interested in playing, try a different game. You can always go back to NL holdem after getting a broader perspective from playing other games and you may find it helps a lot.

PS - When I say play other games I mean study them and play a significant number of hands. A couple sessions or even a few thousand hands of another game would not likely provide much benefit.

**Tim** · Jun 5th, 2012, 05:48 PM

Yeah, very true Jalopy. No-limit hold'em ain't the only game in town!

**a_ntemage** · Jun 17th, 2012, 03:29 PM

well to beat the micros you need trackers... i dun no if were allowed to discuss this but i know plenty o sites where you can get cracked holdem manager for free... i find that with stats and a few notes you can beat it pretty easily... main tip being dont level yourself into calling too much...

**RyckyRych** · Jun 17th, 2012, 10:39 PM

I don't think you have to use tracking software, especially against the micro players. In fact, I'd argue that sometimes we depend on that info too much (meaning VPIP/PFR%/AF, etc).

I'm sure it has value in the proper place but I really doubt it would make much difference unless you see the same players on a consistant basis.

**a_ntemage** · Jun 19th, 2012, 04:16 AM

when playing 4 tables or anything more than 2 tables its hard to keep track of how loose a player is if hes check folding a lot before the river.. (cant see showdown cards thus dun no how exactly he plays) the primary job of tracker is to help to easily identify the fish... agreed 100 hands is not enough (might just be running bad/good) but its plenty to find the fish... i find myself almost crippled without my tracker but i guess thats just my habit... any other microstakes grinders here?